The Money is Not in Your Email List – Episode 49

email list

Are you one of those people who think that the money is in your email list? My guest on Episode 49 of the Business & Life Conversations Podcast will debunk that myth and share why the money isn’t on your email list. Lesley Clavijo, has had many years of experience in online business and definitely knows what it takes to grow an email list, get people engaged through building relationships and turn subscribers into buyers. She will show us the things that we need to focus on to bring in the sales to our business.

This episode is sponsored by Angela’s 4-day, 3-night Women in Business Retreat happening in Australia on October 24-27, 2019. Click here to learn more.

Important Links Mentioned in the Show:

Lesley Clavijo Website

Infinite Marking Advantage

Australian Business Collaborative Facebook Group

Finding Balance in Business Women’s Retreat

Angela Henderson Website

Angela Henderson Active Business Facebook Group

Angela Henderson Facebook Business Page

Angela Henderson Instagram

Prefer to read The Money is Not in Your Email List? Here’s the transcript:

ANGELA:

You’re listening to the Business and Life Conversations Podcast with Angela Henderson, Episode 49.

Hey there, you’re listening to the Business and Life Conversations Podcast. My name is Angela Henderson and on this show, we talk about improving your business, life or both. By having amazing and rich conversations with brilliant guests who will inspire you and who will give you tips and tricks to help you grow both in life and in business.

Well, hey there amazing community. It’s another episode of the Business and Life Conversations Podcast, with me, your host, Angela from Angela Henderson Consulting, where I help women in business develop the foundational framework and strategy they need to grow sustainable and profitable businesses.  So today, we’re talking how the money is not in your email list. Don’t fall off your chair or stop breathing because of the fact that the last thing you should focus on is growing your email list, because contrary to what all the gurus say, the money is not in your email list. I’m bringing my friend, Lesley, on the show today, all the way from the good, old US of A, for her to share why the money isn’t in your email list and what you should be focusing on instead in order to bring in the moolah. She’s a wizard of helping online business owners to generate more revenue through building relationships using simple but powerful marketing strategies. So sit back, grab yourself a beverage. And personally, it’s Friday when I’m recording this today, a mojito would be nice because things are about to get heated.  

But, before we jump in to today’s episode, I just want to let you know that this episode is specifically sponsored by my 4-day, 3-night exclusive Women in Business Retreat, where we focus on women having the chance to connect, refocus, learn, and grow, in order to grow both in business and in life. This amazing event is being held from October 24th through to October 27th down at the Gold Coast here in Queensland, Australia, and it’s an exclusive event with only 50 tickets being sold. From having 8 of Australia’s top female entrepreneurs speaking, to surrounding yourself with amazing women that will lift you up both at the conference and after the event, to daily masterminds to get individualized help on your businesses from both your peers and the speakers, to amazing food, being able to sleep in, and eat meals uninterrupted by your children; you’re not going to want to miss this awesome event. To learn more about this event and to purchase your ticket, head to www.angelahenderson.com.au, and simply click on Retreat. And yes, there are payment plan options in order to help with your cash flow.

Alright. Let’s jump into today’s juicy episode. Welcome to the show, Lesley.

LESLEY:

Hey. How are you doing, Angela? Thanks for having me.

ANGELA:

Gosh. Thank you so much for coming on board. It’s super exciting to have you here. And how are things over in the United States of America today?

LESLEY:

It is absolutely awesome.

ANGELA:

Because you guys are heading into spring/almost summer. Are you not?

LESLEY:

Yes. It’s actually getting quite warm here, which is nice, because we’ve had quite a rainy and cold winter here in Memphis, Tennessee. So yes, we’re getting some warm weather, finally.

ANGELA:  

Like chi-ching. Oh, yes, dude. I remember the cold Canadian winters. And I can just say, I mean, I know you guys don’t get iced-cold in Tennessee, but, yes, spring in America is always fun. Summer is always fun because you guys have like so many cool things that you can do over there. It’s like, people really embrace because your summer goes for like, it’s kind of a little bit of end of June, July and August; you guys get heat all that once. While over here in Australia, our summer break isn’t as long.

LESLEY:

Yes. Exactly. So the kids are about to be out of school. We’ve got a lot of summer camps lined up especially for my little one because if not, they’re just going to be, he’ll be super bored at home; since you know, working mom.

ANGELA:

I know, working mom. And listen, what I love is that, you and I, we’ve only known each other for a very, very short time. In fact, I think, it’s about 7 months or so since joining a group, our mutual mastermind with Katelyn, over in the US. And since then, we’ve not only become friends. We’ve also met in person at Redondo Beach. And then we were also roomies when we were there together, which is always fun. And I find it fascinating how the world of the internet can bring people and form relationships like you and I, which is always great.  

LESLEY:

I know. I feel like we reached out to each other, decided to become roomies super-fast, and became like quick BFFs. Like, I feel like we’ve been best friends for years now and it just happened so super-fast. And that’s the thing because I’ll be honest with you; I don’t have a lot of local friends. Like everybody that’s my friend is online, and the fact that you and I chat at least once a week, if not more, is so fun.  

ANGELA:

I know. Totally.

LESLEY:

So I love it. And I love that we’ve been able to actually meet in person. You’re probably the quickest online friend that I’ve met in person, to be honest. We met each other, steal the deal, and hang out super-fast. So, it’s been so fun.

ANGELA:

My husband was like, “Who’s the random you’re like sharing your room with?” I was like “Leslie, you know,” at the very beginning, because he was like, “How long do you know her?” I was like, “Ah. Actually, I don’t know her. I just posted in the thing for the summer if they’re looking for a roomie. And she said, yes.” He was like, “Is that kind of weird?” I was like, “Yeah, it is what it is.” I was like, “If all else fails, it’s only for a few days.” But it isn’t. It’s turned into a great friendship. And like you said, we reached out on Insta-stories together or personal Facebook’s. So now, again, for those out there, I strongly encourage you to build those relationships I talk about all the time. And I know you guys really get sick about it. But building the relationships in business is what will move your business faster than anything else. So this is just natural.

LESLEY:

Absolutely.

ANGELA:

So listen, now, before we jump into the episode, I like to ask my guest a fun question so that the audience gets to know a little bit more about you. So my question to you is, tell us a little bit about your favourite spot to travel in the United States. Like where do you go? Where’s the fun little place?

LESLEY:

Oh my gosh. My favourite place is the Virgin Islands. Oh, yes. Like, I am a beach bum. I’d always travel to the East Coast in Florida and all that. But a couple of years ago we went to the US Virgin Islands, and ever since then, it’s like, okay, you know more, like actual US coastal beaches, like I love the Caribbean.  

ANGELA:

You know, I’m kind of a Virgin Coast snob, but tell us; again, that’s where you choose to go to.

LESLEY:

Yes.

ANGELA:  

But tell me this though; is that the place where the flamingos are? Or is that Bermuda? I always get the two confused.

LESLEY:

Yes. I went to Bermuda, but that might be. And then there was somewhere down there with like the swimming pigs, which I haven’t been to; I haven’t seen that either. But yes. No, no flamingos. They have a lot of iguanas.  

ANGELA:  

Okay.

LESLEY:

And yes, everywhere; iguanas everywhere. Like tons and tons of iguanas. And yes. So, we just loved it there. The water was so clear and the beaches are really short. So in North Carolina, which is where I’m from, the beaches; like you literally have to trek all your stuff like 4 miles before you get to the water.  

ANGELA:

Yes.

LESLEY:

But in the Caribbean, it’s like 2 feet, you’ll hit the water, and it’s not like this huge low and high tide and all that. So that’s why, I was like, “This is so convenient. I love this place.” The water is so clear.

ANGELA:  

No, like, I can say the beach, because again, it is. I know when I lived in North Carolina, too, it was like a journey, it was almost like a mission. I was like, “This is supposed to be fun.” But it’s taking the 8 hours before I’m actually at the beach.

LESLEY:

Yes.

ANGELA:

So what you’re saying here is like, you’re there. That you walk out of your hotel room and you’re pretty much on the beach.

LESLEY:

Exactly. It’s a lot less of an effort to get to the water and to pack up yourself and leave. It’s not like an all-day event to get to the water.

ANGELA:

So when you’re not being a beach bum and loving life, tell us a little bit about you and what are you currently doing in your business at the moment?

LESLEY:

Yes. So I’ve started my online business about 8 years ago as a blogger, a Lifestyle Blogger. As a stay-at-home Mom, I stumbled upon Pinterest and found these cool things called blogs. And I had a house that we’re renovating, and I thought, “Hey, what is this?” People are sharing how they are fixing things up. And so I started doing the same thing, had some really cool successes with viral post back in the day when Pinterest, you could pin something and get tons of traffic.

ANGELA:

Yes. Good, old days.

LESLEY:

That good, old days. And quickly launched a product based off of one of my viral post. I was like, “Oh, yes. This is amazing. People love this thing.” I was getting hundreds of thousands of page views a month out of this one post. And so I launched the physical product. And sadly, I was resting on the fact of having the viral traffic and having a big Facebook page thinking that I could launch and that I was going to be like an overnight millionaire. But happened was, is Facebook kind of truncates or owns the algorithm and allows people to see what they want them to see. I didn’t really consider that. And this other thing I didn’t consider was, all the traffic that had come to my site that was really interested in what I was writing about had come and gone. Like I had no way of reaching out to those past people that had come to my site because as you can imagine, I wasn’t doing the thing that a lot of people had advised, I wasn’t capturing their email address.

ANGELA:

Yes.

LESLEY:

Yes. So when I launched my product, sadly, I had one sale on launch day. Yes. It was devastating. Now, I’m not going harp on it too long; it ended up being, you know, it was a great product; I had a feature on the Today’s Show. I sold thousands of this product. So it wasn’t that the product was bad, but I really had no idea about the value of email marketing. So long story short, after that really horrible launch day, I started digging into figuring out how people were successful in launching and continuously launching again and again and again. And that’s when I found that everybody that was doing this so well was using email marketing as their biggest business collateral. And that’s where things kind of took a turn for me.

ANGELA:

So they took a turn and now you really have honed into your zone of genius around email marketing, and you’re now a known email strategist. Tell us a little bit about what that looks like. What does a day look like for you?

LESLEY:

Yes. So I worked individually with clients. I’ve worked in the past as a small email marketing strategist for another small business, and I share a lot in my Facebook group and on my Facebook page about profitable email marketing strategy. And I also, again, have a program, where I teach email marketing strategy to my students. So basically, my whole day revolves around email marketing.  

ANGELA:

Email marketing.

LESLEY:

And so for me, what I teach is that, really, that the money is not so much in your list. And that’s what’s so many people get kind of confused about. They hear that the money is in the list which, therefore, to them, means that they have to have this huge email list, right?

ANGELA:

Yes.

LESLEY:

And what we have found, and when I say we, I’m talking about my clients, my students and all the testing that we’ve done; is that having this huge email list does not necessarily translate into money. It’s what we’re doing with our email list, but we’re actively doing long term that creates these conversions, right? And that’s building relationships. And I’m talking about real relationships. So not just circus-level, salesy, spammy emails; it’s from the very first time we’re connecting with our new subscriber to when we’re asking them to take any type of action, be it, click on a link to go to a blog post, or take a survey, or book a call, or sign up for a program.

ANGELA:

Yes. And through that, I mean there’s so much juice that come from it, and as you said earlier, Lesley, that I think is so important, I mean, you’ve heard it a million times, I’ve heard it a million times, majority of the listeners have probably heard it, that, like you said, the money is in your list. But, what you’re saying is, and I read in one of your recent emails, is that, if the money was in the list, if that was true, you said something along the lines like, everyone that had a huge list would be making a ton of money. And then you went on to say for me that, yes, you personally have had lots of clients that have come to you with large lists, they would launch their products or their services; and they’ve made like minimal, very little, if not nothing, despite their big lists.  

LESLEY:

Right. Correct.

ANGELA:

Contrary to that, you also said, yet so many of your students with very small list have made tons and tons of money; like a shitload of money. And I think, in fact, somewhere I read, that your first successful 10K launch was to a list of only 300 people.

LESLEY:

Correct. That’s true. So after my product launch flop, I went or I decided, so I shifted modes and I did a course launch to a list of 300 and I had my first 10K launch. And so, I have students who have a list of like 40 something people on it that sell their products out to receive them. Physical products; also to different products; we are doing also to different launches. And the reason why is because they’re building relationships. Like they’re using their list and looking at it as real people on there, not numbers on a database; where a lot of what’s happening with my clients that come to me with big list is that they have attracted these gigantic lists who love freebie seekers or barnacles, as what one of my students likes to call it.

ANGELA:

Yes.

LESLEY:

And so, they’ve done two things. So they’ve attracted freebie seekers or barnacles and a lot of those people are not the right type of people on their list. And the second thing that they’ve done is they have not nurtured the relationship and cultivated the relationship in order for them to convert into doing any type of action.

ANGELA:

Yes.

LESLEY:

And again, that doesn’t even mean making a sale. That means getting them to do anything they want them to do.

ANGELA:

And it’s with anything, again, I’m a firm believer, and I’ll probably say this multiple times a day, is conversations equal conversion. So whether or not that someone you meet online or on a Facebook group or whether or not that someone is adding to your list is that through conversations, is that you’ll ultimately see conversions. But, one of my others things that I wanted to ask, is like again, so we can both be in agreement to that, the most important collateral for your business is still the email list. Like having an email list is still an important asset regardless of that.  

LESLEY:

Absolutely.

ANGELA:

But, the money isn’t on the list, so what should they be focusing on instead of; you’ve briefly started a touch upon it, about the relationships and that. And I know there’s a few questions that I’m asking in there. But why also do you think that businesses focus so much on that list building versus the relationships? Like, is it because of what they keep hearing? I won’t mention the names of different people and those gurus online. Is it, they don’t know what they don’t know? Is it a mindset? Like what do you think it is that they keep focusing on the number versus on the quality of the relationships?

LESLEY:

Yes. So I think it’s kind of all of what you just said. But more than anything, there’s like this thing out there that so many of the gurus say, I see it all the time, where they’re like, “Okay, you need, in order for you to have a successful launch or in order for you to sell or get conversion, you need to grow your list of 10,000 people because your list will convert at 1%.” There’s like this guarantee out there that it’s going to convert at 1%, even though I’ve seen a list that size converts lower. But there’s this guarantee that it’ll convert at 1%. And I get air quotes by the way.

ANGELA:

Yes.

LESLEY:

But the reason they’re saying that, is because if the 10,000 person list converts at 1%, then that means a hundred sales out of that, right? So it’s like, “Oh my God. You’re going to have to grow this massive list if you want any sales.” Right?

ANGELA:

Right. And then, I mean, how overwhelming is that?  

LESLEY:

How much money does it cost to grow a list? Or if you’re not using paid advertising, how long is it going to take you to get those organic leads on to your list? So for me, I am way more about organic or paid advertising, whatever you want to do to grow a smaller list. But make sure it’s the right people and make sure that you have the foundation set first in order to nurture that relationship, cultivate that relationship, and have higher conversion, instead of trying to bring everybody in and try to get that coveted, which I don’t know why it’s coveted; 1% conversion rate.  

ANGELA:

Yes. And I also think it comes down to, is that regardless of how you want to get people on there, you have to have a lead magnet or an opt-in, something that you’re giving them away for free, that is solving a problem more specifically for your ideal client. And you need to make sure that that, whatever it is you’re paying for in advertising or trying to get people on your list is a message match, is what we call it.  Meaning that that opt-in is directly relating to whatever it is you’re going to eventually try and sell. And an example that I am using, at the moment I have some great ads running; they were getting around 30 to 50 new subscribers a day, which is great. And our email list is growing. However, one of the things that we’re working on is, is it a direct message match? And what I mean is, my great one is about an Instagram opt-in that I’m doing. But my core product isn’t an Instagram course like; Tyler McCall’s would be, for example. So even though we’re getting these great leads, and yes, some of them are converting, we would have a much better conversion right with my new opt-in that we’re still in the middle of devising, which is around the ultimate small business blueprint, right?

LESLEY:

Right.

ANGELA:

Which will lead them to my 8-week coaching program, and lead them to my coaching. So it’s going to be interesting to split test this two opt-ins. We’ve tested a variety of other opt-ins before that didn’t work. So it is about, you got to make sure that however you’re getting them, whatever you are giving them away for free to get them on to your list is directly linked to whatever your offer is going to be. Would you, how do you, what are your thoughts about that?

LESLEY:

Yes. That’s exactly true. And that’s what we’ve seen in a lot of cases with, for instance, the freebie library. I’ve talked about this before, and I’ll be talking about it more here in the next few weeks. But I worked, I have some bloggers that I worked with and even online entrepreneurs that teach business; the freebie library, it’s like a really big thing for a while. And so people would offer a lot of freebies, organized into the library on their site; and subscribers would come on, sign up for it, and get a password that come on, and then they download everything. Well, the problem is, these freebie libraries are attracting like people that are just wanting to come in, download everything, and either unsubscribe or be completely unengaged from that email list.

ANGELA:

Yes.

LESLEY:

And so, they’re those freebie seekers who think, “Well, now I’ve gotten everything, I need nothing more from you.” And so, we’re finding that they are excellent at growing huge email list but of the wrong type of people. They’re not the ones that are actually going to really buy your paid services, and even more so now. And to my great friend, Jennifer Creese, she said to me the other day, she said, “One thing that I tell my clients all the time is once you start organizing your content like that, is when you need to start charging. So that is a membership site.”

ANGELA:

Yes.

LESLEY:

“If you’re organizing your content like that, that is a membership site.”  And I said, “That is genius. That is so smart.” So she was like, “If you have different freebies like that, you need to break them out and have people download them individually, which also helps indicate which ones performing better.”

ANGELA:

Better, yes.

LESLEY:

“And which ones you could put paid promotion or paid advertising by.” So I was like, “That’s super smart.” And I agree with that. And we’re seeing that these freebie libraries do not convert well; they’re not highly engaged subscribers anyways.

ANGELA:

Yes.

LESLEY:

So the other thing, I want to go back to what you were saying as far as opt-in, like Instagram freebie, but yet, we don’t offer Instagram course, it really does need to be highly related to what your end of offer is. So if you’re offering, if you’re a, let me try to give an example, if you’re a photographer, who is trying to book clients, I wouldn’t offer stock photos.

ANGELA:

Like, hello?

LESLEY:

And I see a lot of people doing that. So instead, if you’re trying to book clients, offer like a what-to-wear, like a style guide, like how to dress for your family photos. Because I am awful at dressing and awful at dressing my whole family; like I’m not stylish at all. So I would love a free guide of what to wear to look cute for my family photos. And then within that, lead me down the path to book with you. You know what I mean?

ANGELA:

Yes.

LESLEY:

Like, don’t offer free photos. That doesn’t make sense if you’re trying to book people. So it needs to be closely related. Now if you are, if you have a paid stock photo membership, then yes, you can offer one or two little free stock photos. That’s fine.

ANGELA:

Yes.

LESLEY:

But it has to be closely related to what your end of goal is. So, sorry to go on long with you on that.

ANGELA:

No, no, no. That’s good. I mean, the list is long, they love to hear it. And I think again, so okay, so they’ve got a really great opt-in that matches to their end offer, they’ve got them on board. But then, again, a lot of times, people just fall short. They don’t have, they’re not nurturing, they’re not building the relationship, they’re not doing anything. And what I heard you say on one of your Facebook lives, is you’ve got this garden analogy. And so can you share that with the listeners about what the garden analogy is? It might give them a better visual understanding about what we’re trying or what we’re wanting to do with those people who actually come on to our funnel or sequence, etc.

LESLEY:

Yes, absolutely. So what a lot of people do is they create that freebie and they get so super excited because everybody says, “Grow that list.” So the freebie is like seeds. And they go out into their front yard and they just throw that freebie out there; they throw those seeds out there. And they’re like, “Okay, let’s grow this thing.” And then, they expect to go out into their yard and just all of a sudden, 6 months from now, there’s going to be all of these fruits and vegetables out there that are ready to pluck from. Well, that’s not how it works. Just like with gardening, you don’t like, that’s not how email marketing works. You can’t go out there and start pulling from a yard that’s not been cultivated and taken care of, and the foundation has not been laid. With email marketing, we can’t just create our freebie, grow our list, and expect to do nothing with it. And then, all of a sudden, ask people to buy things from us; and it actually be fruitful. That’s not how it works. So you can create a freebie; that’s an awesome first step. But growing it is not the first step. You’ve got to lay the next foundation. Just like with the garden, so before we plant the seeds, before we start advertising them, putting that freebie out there, what we want to do, is we want to set up automation; we want to set up that nurture sequence. And then the next thing we want to do after the nurture sequence, is we want to commit to engaging with our list at least once a week with a newsletter. Okay?

ANGELA:

Yes.

LESLEY:

Because you can build a huge list or even a small list, whatever size list you want. And if you just let them sit there, and you don’t engage with them and you don’t nurture them; just like with the garden, throw the seeds out there, and you just let them sit, nothing is going to happen. They’ll actually; all of those people in that list will die, just like the seeds you throw in your yard, they’ll be dead. There’s nothing that will come from it. So it’s just waste.

ANGELA:

So if they’re dead, but also, like depending on what service or CRM you’re paying for. So I use ConvertKit or used to use ConvertKit I should say, we’ll pretense that. I could tell, like a couple of weeks ago when I moved to ActiveCampaign, as you know, but I still love ConvertKit, and I’d definitely go back to it.

LESLEY:

Yes.

ANGELA:

So I only moved from ConvertKit to ActiveCampaign because of this funnel, complex funnels that we need to be able to do. But if you’re just starting out, I highly, to just ConvertKit.

LESLEY:

No worries. I have a list on ConvertKit and ActiveCampaign; so I’m here to say I promote both.  

ANGELA:

Yes. But depending on where you’re at, will also depend on how much that you’re paying.

LESLEY:

Yes.

ANGELA:

So for example, I’m paying more on ConvertKit to hold each individual subscriber, than I used to on ConvertKit, no, ActiveCampaign is more, ConvertKit is that less, and so again, you just don’t want these people; so you’ve been paying, you’ve paid the lead magnet through Facebook ads, which is a cost to you; now paying them to sit on your email list, because ActiveCampaign is charging you based on the thousands of people that you have. So you’re actually going in the whole, the more that you don’t choose to nurture them, build the foundations and grow them along the way, because you’re actually just continuing to waste more money, more money, more money.

LESLEY:

Yes. And then the disappointing part of it all is that we’ve been told, “Grow your list, grow your list, grow your list.” And so, but not necessarily the rest of the story. And so, then we worked so hard to grow, grow, grow, grow, grow; and then we go in for the ask, then no one return, nothing comes back. So there’s like, okay, we’ve put in this investment, but now I’ve sent out a few emails asking them to sign up for our program, or maybe, you’ve sent inconsistent emails that weren’t sales emails and now you’re asking for; sign up for this, join my program or what not. And that’s just not how it works. And just ultimately does not; you have to build the relationship. You have to be consistent. There is a flow to this. There’s also a lot of strategy behind it. It’s about giving value. It’s about really understanding that your list is more than just people in a database. It is about building relationships and knowing that your list has a lot of power behind it. So be on the fact of just writing to them; I use my list and I teach my students and clients to use their list like they would social media. So social media, everybody’s always so about engagement “Engagement; we got to get the engagement. We got to get people to reply. We got to get people to respond.” But yet, and nobody thinks of email that way.

ANGELA:

Yes.  

LESLEY:

Or not a lot of people do.

ANGELA:

No.

LESLEY:

They may do it in one of their first nurture sequence emails. They may say, “Hey, reply and tell me what your biggest struggles are.” I have a whole different system I teach up in front of that, but we can’t even cover that today. And my newsletters, I always tell my students, “End with a question that’s related to whatever content you have in there. Ask people their opinions.” People love to give their opinions. People love to give advice. They want to, give them your expert hat for a minute and let them wear the expert hat. Let them tell you something that they feel is of value to share with you. It is just absolutely amazing what type of information they will share with you behind these closed doors of an email that you will not get on Facebook or Instagram. I have received so much information you wouldn’t even believe.

ANGELA:

And again, it’s like, because you’re treating them like humans instead of numbers, that’s where the conversations can happen. And if conversations can happen, you can get conversions. And I guess, that goes into my next point, that, as a business owner, yes we’re wanting to get someone on our list, but the reality is that we want to take them from a subscriber to a customer. We’re wanting to take the new subscriber who is super cold, which means they know nothing about us; warming them and then giving them as hot leads, someone who has bought from us. However, as we’ve talked about Les is, in order to get the conversion, you must first get them to take action, which you call in one of your live videos, micro commitment. Can you talk us through what those micro commitments look like?

LESLEY:

Yes. So micro commitments are things like clicking links, hitting the reply button; oh, gosh, I’m trying to think of anything else. So, that’s really it; opening the email.  

ANGELA:

Yes.

LESLEY:

There’s not too many micro commitments that people make in email, but really, those few things. So opening, clicking, hitting reply; those are the things that we want them to do.

ANGELA:

Or, again, I guess a micro-commitment could be also like, “Hey, join my Facebook group.” So they’ve clicked the link and then they’ve committed to the Facebook group. Or, like you said, they’ve clicked the reply button and they’ve committed. So, we just to get them from the sitting on our list and doing nothing, to committing in some way of engaging with us further post the email.  

LESLEY:

Yes. Exactly. And some email systems let them share their emails with their friends, forward it to their friends, those kinds of things. So if you’re able to do that, that’s also a great way to get people taking action. You know, “If you found this valuable, share this, forward this email to a friend,” those kind of thing.

ANGELA:

And for those listeners that obviously are shitting themselves because you’ve just dropped the reality bomb to them that the money is not in the email list. Can you walk us through, or can you walk the listeners through, I guess, I’ve just said, the steps that they should take when it comes to email marketing so that if they need to start today or even start researching today, like obviously, you kind of touched upon a little bit about like, obviously, you need a lead magnet and then from the lead magnet, they’re going to go into, are you suggesting like a nurture sequence.

LESLEY:

Yes. So the nurture sequence, the main core, the main purpose is for them to really understand who you are or what your brand is about, how you can serve them, and just to really get to know you better. And also to just kind of welcome them; like lay out the red carpet, give them some more things of value. Like, I like to leave cliffhangers each day; so making sure that they know that they should open the email the next day. Because I’ve got something else really awesome and I usually give them more, not tons of free stuff; but like another free thing that’s very helpful the next day just to get them, like really engage them. You know what; my highest open rates are those first 3 days. I think my nurture sequence now at this point is 3 days. Some, it depends on your business and your customer or your audience, how long your nurture sequence can be. You can test. But for me, it’s 3 days. And yes, you really want to give them, really connected with you right up front. Otherwise, they get that freebie, and if there’s nothing after that, and you start sending emails, they’re like, “Who the heck is this person?”

ANGELA:

So lead magnet into the nurture sequence and then you’re talking about being consistent; and then after that nurture sequence, you’re saying, every week on a particular day, where the opening rate is good based on your audience, you know like, what they need from you, is you would be suggesting a weekly email.

LESLEY:

Weekly at the least; and I’ll tell you what, there are some people that, you’ve got to, this is all depending on your audience, what you can handle, but weekly at the least. There are some people that are sending 2, 4, 5, whatever, I mean; it’s all up to you. But once a week is the least amount to stay consistent, to stay in front of mind, and to stay in people’s inboxes; because people are, they get a lot of emails. And I have people that are like; they open them over the course of 2 to 3 days sometimes. So even if your open rate might be like 10% on the day you send it, come back and check like 2 or 3 days later, because it’s funny, like people will literally open your email like days later. It’s so weird.

ANGELA:

I know, we will send ours, we will send ours on Thursday, which is our highest open day, and then we resend it with another title on a Monday. So, it could be that, because titles are super important. But again, that’s a whole another episode, just talking about titles, subject.

LESLEY:

Totally.

ANGELA:

But I guess, for those of you that are listening out there, like again, anyone, if you can go and give you a lead magnet up and have a nurture sequence. But just as I say, I say with all of my VIP clients and my coaching clients, and I think Lesley you would too, is that you still need a strategy behind this. If you just go and tick a box and get the nurture sequence up, and if you get the weekly email up, but there’s not strategy behind it. You’re still just ticking a box and you’re still just wasting money.  

And I guess, that’s for those listeners out there Lesley who want to nail their email marketing, obviously, how can they connect with you so that they have an opportunity to really again look at that overall email strategy to move their business forward?

LESLEY:

Yes. Thank you so much for giving me the opportunity to tell them. So if you go to my website, lesleyclavijo.com, I have a freebie, of course, on my website, The Ultimate Guide to Email Marketing. And that will get you into kind of my sequence; it’ll start kind of teaching you just the basics. And I also have my program, the Infinite Marking Advantage, so it’ll invite you to a master class, you’ll be able to watch my master class as well. But yes, that’s exactly how you can learn more about me, more about my program. And like Angela said, we kind of just like talked about the tip of the iceberg, and what we’re learning and testing and teaching is kind of like a constant, it’s an ongoing thing. It’s something that is always evolving and it’s not something you can just kind of checkup. We’re always trying to make sure that were at the top of our game and that we’re understanding what our audience needs. And I want to leave your listeners with this Angela because I know that you’re very much about this. We just want to remember that, any type of marketing that we’re doing is human to human, and that’s what I’m all about.

ANGELA:

Amen.

LESLEY:

And that’s what I asked my students is that, when you’re writing, focus on serving, focus on really building relationships and the sales will come naturally. I truly, truly believe this; I see it all the time. Stop focusing on the numbers on your list and the growth, and focus on serving your people.

ANGELA:

Good. Amen sister. Yes. People who’ve been around me know I’m all about HH Marketing is first, everything is second. And again, conversation is conversion. And genuinely, if you’re worried about the sales and that, naturally your business is in a much bigger problem than just anything else, because, yes, we’ve talked about this, all my VIP coaching clients, I’ve paid zero advertising to those people that have come through my Facebook group or through my podcast.  

LESLEY:

Yes.

ANGELA:

Add value, have your strategy, treat them like humans, and everything else will rock and roll. Well, thank you so much, Lesley, for taking the time. I know our time zones are slightly different, so thank you for that. And for the rest of you, please remember my team and I will also be putting together the whole transcriptions with the links to Lesley’s freebie and her website at angelahenderson.com.au. And of course, I cover all sorts of related business and life topics inside my Facebook community, The Australian Business Collaborative; we’re about to hit 5200 people, which is crazy. So please head over and join us there. And if not, have a fabulous day, and I look forward to having you guys join me next week for another amazing episode of the Business and Life Conversations Podcast. Have an awesome day everyone. Bye.

Thanks for listening to the Business and Life Conversations Podcast with Angela Henderson, Email list. www.angelahenderson.com.au

Angel Henderson Consulting

I'm Ange... proud Canadian, Nutella eating lover and pink is my favorite colour with a splash of glitter. I'm a business consultant/coach who has helped hundreds of business owners get all the pieces in place to have consistent 5-figure months and multiple 6-figure years... without burning out in the process.