Grow Your List & Increase Sales Through Challenges – Episode 46

Zack Spuckler Challenges

What are challenges and how can it help your business grow? In Episode 46 of the Business & Life Conversations Podcast, Zack Spuckler of Heart, Soul & Hustle gives us a rundown on everything Challenges. We discuss the different types of challenges, give examples, and point out its difference with webinars. Most importantly, Zack shares the wonderful benefits of creating challenges and how you can achieve these with steps you can implement in your business today.

This episode is sponsored by Angela’s 4-day, 3-night Women in Business Retreat happening in Australia on October 24-27, 2019. Click here to learn more.

Important Links Mentioned in the Show:

Heart, Soul & Hustle Website

Heart, Soul & Hustle Instagram

Free Workbook on Mapping Out Your Challenge

Australian Business Collaborative Facebook Group

Finding Balance in Business Women’s Retreat

Angela Henderson Website

Angela Henderson Active Business Facebook Group

Angela Henderson Facebook Business Page

Angela Henderson Instagram

Prefer to read Grow Your List & Increase Sales Through Challenges? Here’s the transcript:

ANGELA:

You’re listening to the Business and Life Conversations Podcast with Angela Henderson, Episode 46.

Hey there, you’re listening to the Business and Life Conversations Podcast. My name is Angela Henderson and on this show, we talk about improving your business, life or both. By having amazing and rich conversations with brilliant guests who will inspire you and who will give you tips and tricks to help you grow both in life and in business.

Well hey there, Angela here, and welcome back to another episode of the Business and Life Conversations Podcast. I’m your host, Angela from Angela Henderson Consulting, where I help women in business develop the foundational framework and strategy they need to grow sustainable and profitable businesses. I’m super excited for today’s episode because I’m not only talking to someone I’ve long admired but someone who has now become a very, very dear friend to me. And that amazing person is Zack Spuckler, from ‘Heart, Soul & Hustle.’ In this particular episode, you’re going to learn what is a challenge? What are the benefits of creating a challenge for your business? And the steps you need to take to create that wonderful challenge. Now I can tell you, over the 9 years of being in business, from Finlee and Me, to also Angela Henderson Consulting, challenges have been one of the exponential, pivotal points in growth within my business and I can’t wait to share that with you today.

But before we do, I just want to jump in and say that this particular episode is sponsored by my 4-day, 3-night Women in Business Retreat where we focus on women having the chance to connect, refocus, learn and grow in order to grow both in life and in business. My retreat is going to be held from October 24th through October 27th down at the Gold Coast here in Queensland, Australia, and it is an exclusive event with only 50 tickets being sold. From having 8 of Australia’s top female entrepreneurs speaking, to surrounding yourself with amazing people that will lift you up both at the conference and after the conference, to daily masterminds to get individualized help on your business from both your peers and the speakers, to amazing food, being able to sleep in, and eat a meal uninterrupted by children; you’re not going to want to miss this amazing event. To learn more about this event and to purchase your ticket, head to www.angelahenderson.com.au and simply click on Retreat. And yes, we do have 6-monthly payment plans to also help with your cash flow.

Alright, now let’s jump into today’s episode. Welcome to the show, Zack.

ZACK:

Hey, Angela. Thanks so much for having me.

ANGELA:

Yes. Well, it is awesome having you here. I feel like it was just yesterday, you’re in Australia, hanging out. How are you adjusting back into life in Ohio?

ZACK:

Oh my gosh. It’s been an adjustment. The time zone and the jetlag is real. But I’m back and I’m loving it.

ANGELA:

You’re back and you’re loving it? Now tell me…

ZACK:

No, I’m not loving Ohio. I’m loving having been to Australia.

ANGELA:

That’s fair enough. Listen, Ohio is one of the states, not necessarily, it’s definitely not California, it’s definitely not Australia. But speaking of, you are, I think you’re about to move pretty soon also, are you not leaving Ohio?

ZACK:

Yes. We’re leaving Ohio and we’re heading up California so we’re excited to get somewhere that has sun, little more like Australia, so we’re very excited.

ANGELA:

Well, dude that is awesome. And I’m also excited because that means we’ve got a place to stay when I head over to California which really is super fun. Now let me ask you this, on your recent podcast episode, before we jump in to challenge marketing, you were talking about how you took a 3-month break, is that right?

ZACK:

Yes. Yes. It was like 2 months and 3 weeks. Or. Yes, 2 months and 3 weeks. So a 3-month break from content creation.

ANGELA:

And how did you end up feeling? What are your kind of like, little insights before we jump into this episode, about that? Because I thought it’s super interesting because I think a lot of entrepreneurs put a lot of pressure on themselves to be doing what everyone is telling you to do or what you must be doing but you kind of done that counter-intuitive stuff. And how’s that worked out for you?

ZACK:

Yes. So, I mean to be really transparent, like I still kind of post on Instagram and on Facebook from time to time, but more from a place of when I felt inspired or I wanted to share what I was doing on my vacation. Or it was something that my VA was taking care of. So I think while I was offline, there were like a few inspirational quotes posted by my team.

ANGELA:

Yes.

ZACK:

But for the most part, I really just stepped back and I gave myself 3 months to be like: You don’t have to create a podcast.” That’s my primary form of communication is podcasting. And I did a couple of emails to my list but that was actually, “You got to email them, please.” And so I did email some old content and some recycled content, but I really stepped back for several months and I just gave myself the space to get creative again. And I took the 3 weeks I was in Australia completely off from business, other than about 5-10 hours at work that just kind of. Unfortunately, the nature of a lifestyle business is, you are the brand, so you do have to show up and do some stuff. But I worked about 5-10 hours over the course of 3 weeks, less the 2 days I was at a conference. I don’t really consider that working because I love it and it lights me up. But I came back really refreshed and excited and we got podcast lined up, me being on a podcast, people coming on my podcast. We’ve already batched out about; I want to say 8 weeks of content. I’ve started emailing my list again. I’m posting on social media. I’ve built a Facebook group for 30 days. Like, I am just back and refreshed, and it’s never felt easier to like create good content.

ANGELA:

And the thing that’s an operative word there, it’s probably easier, but I would also suspect that the quality of your content is so much better than just taking a box and saying, “I did it from a quantity point of view.”

ZACK:

Totally. I think the biggest thing is when I came back, I had this clarity around the podcast that is, where I’m moving away from doing very like, “Give me your six steps to whatever, whatever,” and having conversations with CEOs. Because that’s what I want to do and I think that’s what my audience is looking for. Don’t get me wrong. I think that there’s a place for it, and I think that people absolutely want and love the tactical step by step. But what I found was that, after 119 episodes of the show, there’s only so many ways you can go like, “Here’s the 6 steps to build your email list.”

ANGELA:

Approve 100%.

ZACK:

“Here’s the 7 steps to run a Facebook ad.” And now, I’ve created the reach, and without sounding too ‘ego-ey,’ the influence that I can reach out to people I want to have on the show and just have entrepreneurial high-level conversations about business and life, and what it means. And so we’ve had a few people on the show so far with this kind of new format, and it’s been so rejuvenating to just be able to have conversations with CEOS; that you have it in the silent, you have in the dark, you have it in the hallway of these events and be able to bring them to light on the show. It’s created a whole new spark of excitement for me.

ANGELA:

Now that sounds fantastic. And I think you are right. I think podcast, I still do; today will be one because I think that with the ‘How Tos’ for my particular cohort of individuals, that what we’re going to show to them today is super beneficial. But I think like you said, from where you’re at, you’re in 119 episodes in and you can only talk about challenge marketing so many times on your podcast or whatever that is and I think that is super important to be able to I guess spruce things up a little bit.

ZACK:

Yes. 100%. And like I said, as I’m saying, and I’m like, and there’s a set of questions for this one that is step-by-step.

ANGELA:

But again, but I think that your audience is probably in a different space than what my audience is, right? So mine probably need a little bit more step-by-step guidance because they might not even know where the challenge is. Where your audience I think is fine, because you’ve been using that language and those words for a very long time. So again I think it’s 100%, makes sense that you’re pivoting how you’re running the podcast.

ZACK:

100%.

ANGELA:

Now before we hop into how to increase your email list and stuff of challenges, I always like to start, we kind of start it I guess, but that’s the nature of you and I, we’ve been friends for a while now, so we can kind of just flow with that. But for the audience, who doesn’t know you, I always start with a fun question and you’re probably giggle with this because we’ve been talking about this. But I want, the question that I have for you is, I know that you love to shop, alright? I want to know what the latest thing you purchased and why you loved it so much.

ZACK:

Gosh. So the latest thing I purchased was a designer bag.

ANGELA:

Yes?

ZACK:

And I purchased it because the, we operate on the profit first, model in my business. And what that means is we set aside money for taxes and profit in the business that pays me out quarterly. And I met with my CPA, and he was like, “You have X amount extra in your tax account.” And when I was in Australia, I actually went to this designer store that I’d always wanted to go to. And I was like, “I’m going to buy something here.” And I bought a wallet and it was a couple hundred bucks. It wasn’t crazy. Some people will say that’s crazy, but it wasn’t this crazy expense. And when I was there, I fell in love with this bag. I was like, “I really want to have this bag. Like that would be so cool.” And it would just make me feel like abundant and wealthy. It’s silly. It’s material; not really big on the material things. I drive a Ford Edge. I was a little excited to have my SUV Crossover. But for whatever reason, this designer label, I was just like, “That would feel so abundant and wealthy.” And so I took about half of my extra excess in the tax account at the beginning of the year. I took that excess and I put half towards my student loans because I have about, my student loans about 55/60% paid off. And I took the other half and I bought something kind of frivolous. I don’t care in consumer debt, but I thought, “You know what, I don’t go crazy too, too much of the time. Every once in a while I do.” But it just made me feel wealthy and abundant and it was cool to say that I could do it. So I haven’t told a lot of people about it because I, maybe we can even touch on this, but I do have like this fear of judgment from other people that I bought this expensive bag that I don’t need. But it makes me feel good and abundant and I’m really excited to like carry it through the airport.

ANGELA:

But I think that too, and again, I think it depends on where you’re at in business and we’ve been talking about this when you were here in Australia, is that, sometimes, there’s this like, I don’t know, taboo, gosh forbid you to talk about wanting to be a millionaire. Or God forbid you to talk about wanting to be wealthy, right? And not from a space of like, “Oh, I’m going to be driving around in Mercedes.” Maybe you will be, right? If that’s what you choose. But there is an essence of that is, that it is okay, or we should feel okay, that if we’re working hard, we do have a successful business, you’re not, you don’t need to put the bag on the credit card. Your accountant said to you, “Zack, you actually got this X amount of money.” So why shouldn’t you go and do something nice of that? And it doesn’t mean that you’re going to go buy a wallet; it might just be that you’re buying flowers for yourself for the week. The fact is that I think business owners need to give themselves permission, that it’s okay to have indulgences and that it’s alright.

ZACK:

Yes. And my indulgences, like, this is my 4th year in business and my 10th year online; and my indulgences earlier were like, I go out to dinner or I get a massaged once a quarter. And now, I built up the revenue, the business and the profit to be able to have larger indulgences.

ANGELA:

Yes. And everyone’s indulgences’ is going to be different.

ZACK:

Yes.

ANGELA:

Depending on your upbringing for example, or what your likes or what it isn’t, but for you, embrace it, man. Rock it. Wear that bag. Be proud of that bag because you worked hard for it. So well done, I say. Well done. And for all those out there, think about what something that again, what could you indulge in yourself? Not again, I’m not saying we put focus on credit card but when you get to those stages, and it’s also about celebrating I thing to the wins, Zack. I did a Facebook live in my Facebook group, The Australian Business Collaborative, the other day, and people don’t want to share their wins because it might make them look conceited or greedy or whatever that is. But I’m like, “It’s okay to embrace the small wins. It’s okay to embrace the big wins.” I think it’s important that we do that.

ZACK:

Yes. 100%.

ANGELA:

So now, for the listeners out there, we know, okay, tick, that you love to shop, alright? But tell them a little bit more about you, your business, and kind of anything in between that we need to know about. I know you got a couple of dogs that you treat as your family, which is awesome. So tell us a little bit about Zack?

ZACK:

Yes. So my name is Zack Spuckler. My company is Heart, Soul & Hustle. And basically, we work with digital-based businesses who have digital products, courses, coaches, consultants; that type. And for those who want to know the more personal side of me, I have 2 dogs: Ted and Charles, or Theodore Bearstien and Charles Bark Lee, as their full names would be. And they are 2 little itty bitty dogs, totally perpetuating the stereotype, love having my little dogs. And I’m addicted to Disney; I’ve been to Disney World several times. I took a solo trip about 2 years ago all by myself; 7 days at Disney World, one of the best things I’ve ever done. If you’ve never done a solo trip to Disney World, can’t recommend it enough; front of the lines, easy to get dinner reservations. So that’s kind of who I am on a personal note.

On a professional note, I’ve been in the online marketing space for about 10 years; actually even more than that. I made my first dollar online when I was 12 years old. And I know that because, I don’t know exactly what it’s called in Australia, but in America, you have a social security number.

ANGELA:

Tax number.

ZACK:

Yes. You have to use that to get paid. And I had to borrow my dad’s because I was online and I was like, “Dad, you have to say that you’re doing it.” And luckily, my parents have always been really supportive. And he was like, “Okay, whatever.” Or maybe he wasn’t. I don’t really remember the exact situation. But I used it and I collected my first dollar online when I was 12. And that was in the, it was called Pay to Click Advertising. Basically, you got paid to click on advertisements, and then you got a recurring fee if you got referrals under you to also click on advertisements. And it was like, so old school, so, I came, and I don’t even know how to explain it. But I was really just fascinated with the idea of turning nothing into something and generating revenue online. And I never really wanted the traditional job.

So fast forward, several years, I’ve done all kinds of stuff. I’ve done direct sales, I’ve done affiliate marketing, I’ve flipped a website before, I’ve done food blogging, I’ve done Pinterest marketing, I did blog consulting. And now, I came to a place where basically, over the 8 or so years that I was doing that, I really sat down and I had a conversation with myself where said, “What is the common thread of all of this?” And number one was generating revenue online. I’m very motivated by like, creating something out of nothing. And the other one was marketing. When I looked back to what I loved, in the Pay to Click, it was recruiting the referrals, it was figuring out the numbers and crunching how that would build my overall referral database. And when I was in the field blogging space, it was Pinterest, and Pinterest marketing; and I loved that. When I did some ads management, it was finding new clients, and doing the sales calls and closing new deals. And I was like, what I really love is the marketing. And I have this moment where I said, “What I really love is the marketing but I’m no millionaire.”

And so I started Heart, Soul & Hustle on a couple of basic principles. One was that I would always operate from integrity, and tell people, “Look, here’s what I’ve done. I can’t show you how to make a million. But I can show you how to do what I’ve done so far.” The other one was that, I was going to, basically, you can do anything with heart, soul and a little bit of hustle.

ANGELA:

Yes.

ZACK:

And so I started my business, and at the time, I was making, I was making like, I had gone 4 or 5 clients with Periscope, which was an online live streaming platform if you remember.

ANGELA:

Yes.

ZACK:

Now Facebook Live is taking over. But I did this, and after 30 days, I had several Facebook ads management clients, because I learned how to run Facebook ads from my blog days. And I basically did a live stream where I was like, “Hey, if I showed you how on landing clients with Periscope, would you be interested for 97 bucks?” I did it at Starbucks. We sold $1200 worth of a program I hadn’t created yet. We ended up selling over $2000 over that weekend. And from there, I’ve always said, “Okay, here’s how I launched on Periscope,” and built that to a six-figure product. And then I said, “Do you want to learn how to do Facebook ads?” I’ve built my Facebook ads program to a six-figure product. And I fell in love with launching these products and created a product around how I was launching. And fast forward now, I launch or I teach how to launch with 5-day challenges, which I’ve done for live streaming, Facebook ads, launching, and now I teach people how to use my system. And we’ve done, I want to say, just over half a million in sales with that system.

ANGELA:

Which is phenomenal.

ZACK:

Just to give you a frame or reference, we did not keep all that. We have expenses, and team, and things like that. But we’ve got over 600 students in the program. And we’re at a place now where we’ve leveraged some automated marketing, some leverage marketing, and we move people to that program. We’ve had success stories and the dog training niche, the financial niche, manifesting, business to business, coaches, consultant, copywriters. Everything you can imagine, we’ve had someone go through and use that system. So that brings us to here where we’re talking about challenges.

ANGELA:

Exactly. But again, what I love too there and that’s what I love about you Zack, is the integrity side of things, that again, yes you’ve made half a mil, but you also gave the disclosure, this wasn’t all profit, right? And so many freaking entrepreneurs right here, again, that they made a 6-figure launch, a 7-figure launch, you may have had that, but that was not your profit, right? And that, I think that it is important that when people hear that. So I appreciate that you’re saying that to our listeners because so often I think, people go, “Oh, how can I do that?” or “Is that really true?” or whatever. And then again, you have made half a mil, but it’s not all profit, that was revenue from it.

ZACK:

Totally.

ANGELA:

And growing up, you know we could talk about this, and as we are, we’ll talk about how to grow your list and increase sales through challenges, but for those of you that are listening out there, not everyone is going to know what a challenge is. So what is your most simplistic way for letting someone know what a challenge is?

ZACK:

Yes. So in the simplest term, a challenge is a period of content delivered followed by a period of sales. So if you’re familiar with the concept of launching, if you’re not, that’s ok; but basically, it’s where we show up for our audience and we deliver content or value for free for a period of time. And then we say, “If you like this free content, it’s an intro to some of what I teach inside my paid offer, now you can come join me and my paid offer.” So it’s very similar to what companies like Apple do, right? They deliver lots of value, they show up, they create commercials, they build anticipation, they build buzz, and then they say, “And by the way, the iPhone is available starting this day.” And then they do keynotes, and promotions, and blog interviews, and content with Tech Seanav and Tech Crunch, and then, the card opens. And then for a period of time, you can be one of the first to buy the new iPhone. It’s the exact same concept delivered via, we recommend 5 days, and we can get into why that is, but free content, which in your case, is going to be value-based content, followed by a period of time where your card is open and people can buy your coaching, consulting or digital.  

ANGELA:

And to give you guys some examples about what 5-day challenge is, is that, I just downed at James Schramko’s event. I spoke about challenges too, because I too again, I love challenges, Zack. I think every business should at least test challenges. And I think it’s just one of those avenues that once you do it, you can rinse and repeat, every quarter, you can do it, every other month, whatever it is. But once you’ve got your challenge up and going, it really, really is a powerful way to not only grow your email list, have conversations that equally have these conversions. And I know when I first started Finlee and Me, almost 9 years ago, one of the challenges I did was 30 Days, 30 Ways To Connect With Your Child. A friend of mine, Stevie Dillon, she’s got one, it’s called The Complete Road Map to Social Media; Jadah Sellner, who I first initially heard about challenges from talk, The 30 Day Green Smoothie. I know you did the Build a 5-Day Challenge You Can Flip Into a 5-Figure Launch. My friends, Emma and Carla, The Merrymakers, they got the Lunch Break Challenge where they give like a little yoga and Pilates thing that you can do to increase your exercise. And then I also run the free 5-Day Challenge on Discover How to Increase Your Sales and Get More Clients.

So there’s a variety of different types of challenges, I think Zacky also said that you’d done one were like, they were in the Dog Niche, right? Or maybe you used it as an example?

ZACK:

I had a student.

ZACK:

Yes, yes, with a student. You didn’t do it but you had a student. Because I hear often, “Well my particular business can’t do it,” or “My business can’t.” But genuinely, any business can, you just have to be creative.

ZACK:

Yes.

ANGELA:

Do you agree?

ZACK:

100%.

ANGELA:

Or do you also, is there anyone that you’ve worked with where you feel like a challenge wasn’t, it didn’t work?

ZACK:

Yes. That’s a really great question. And I love that you gave examples because I’m a talker and an explainer so I tend to go really high level really quick. So these examples are very helpful to cement it. But in terms of who a challenge isn’t for, I tell people, “If you have really low techs at products where you don’t have an audience already, and your lead cost would be higher than your return, then you’re probably not a good fit for a challenge.” And that tends to be with people who have like, a physical product that’s between $15 and $30 where, what’s your best friend is like press, viral marketing, organic marketing, products placement, right? That’s probably not a great fit. The other people that aren’t a good fit for a challenge and this is going to be a little direct, but people who want the one and done quick win.

ANGELA:

Yes.

ZACK:

So we basically say that your first challenge is to figure out your offer. Your second challenge is to refine everything. And your third challenge is to profit. So you also have to be willing to kind of put in a time to test it and see, “Does this resonate with my audience? Does this not resonate with my audience? Is this content converting? Is this content not converting?” So if you have a really low tech product where organic or viral marketing is going to serve you better, probably not a great fit. And it’s really ideal for digital based products or service-based products. And then people who are willing to test, refine and plan.

ANGELA:

Fantastic. And I know, being in the e-commerce space with Finlee and Me, I initially hear a lot of people say, “Oh, you can’t do a challenge; you know, you’re an e-commerce.” But what I did was, I was able to look at what my audience was struggling with. And through the e-commerce, I actually was able to build 3 different challenges. There was 30 Days 30 Ways To Connect With Your Child; 30 Days 30 Ways of Christmas Cheer; and 30 Days 30 Ways Of Self Care For Moms. Because obviously, my ideal client was those particular moms with young kids buying educational toys, etc. But what I was able to do, I was able to demonetize it; I was able to bring on sponsorship, so people would sponsor the challenge. I was also able to do the 30 Days, 30 Ways Christmas Challenge. I would give my like, “This is the one thing that you can connect with your kids during Christmas.” And then, I would also feature a product of the day. So that when the challenge was done, they had already been exposed to 30 different products that I had by adding value with the challenge. And then, was able to offer them a coupon code at the end.

ZACK:

I love it. So maybe I have to take it back. You can make it work in the e-comm space.

ANGELA:

Yes. So again, I was like, I’m going to challenge you on that one Zack. Well, I made it work. I’m not saying again, but I think again if you could figure out the needs like if you are a dog owner, for example, I guess. And you had something, and you were selling, I don’t know, dog food, leads, etc., you might teach them like 5 Days to Get Your Dog to Sit. I don’t know. Something like that. But then again, you’re showcasing a dog product every day.  I don’t know. But that’s how we made it work with Finlee and Me, and then we just offer them a 10% off coupon in the end. That was our offer. And we did it, for the Christmas cheer one, for example, we did that one in October and then November we were able to; no, sorry, we did it in November, so then they got 30 days and the products, so in December, they then were using the coupon to buy their Christmas presents.

ZACK:

I love that.

ANGELA:

Yes, and that worked. That one did. So now, what are you thinking, for those that are out there that like, “Damn, this shit’s going to be hard work right?” or “I might not see that right away.” What are the benefits do you find of a challenge?

ZACK:

The biggest benefit is that you build a connection, a community with your audience. So when you are able to connect with your audience through free content and provide them with content like perfect example, your 30-Day challenge, 30 Days 30 Ways, oh my gosh. I’ll let you say it.

ANGELA:

30 Days 30 Ways To Connect With Your Child.

ZACK:

Thank you. Every day, you’re offering them a piece of value as a way to connect with their child, right? And so, every day that you do that, you do a couple of things. Number one, you build connection, right? Just hearing from somebody every day builds connection. Number two, you’re building authority. You’re now becoming the go-to person in their inbox every day, saying, “Here’s a way to connect with your child.” And number three, if you leverage the power of a Facebook group, you actually build a community. So we had a student go to our program who actually was kind of pivoting in their business, and they built a Facebook group of like several hundred people. And after their challenge was over, yes they sold their product, but then they had a group of people who liked them, their mission, their message, even if they weren’t buyers at that time. And not picking the community that they leverage and built into a larger community; so you build connection, you build authority, and if you do it right, you can build a community.

ANGELA:

And that again, like you said, it’s not just, I guess, the benefit is, it’s just not a short injection into your business and brand. If you’re really looking at from a longevity point of view, is that again, the benefit of an ongoing group, but also the benefit of growing your email list. And if you’re able to get into their inbox, so you’re able to get in their community via Facebook, if you got an external platform, that again, whenever there’s conversation, there eventually will be a conversion.

ZACK:

Absolutely. And I think that’s the other thing you hit on, is like from a tactical perspective, the benefits are you can generate revenue, you can build your email list, you can increase your reach, you can increase influence. It’s not uncommon for us to hear from our audience that, “Oh, someone in my industry heard I was doing this challenge and shared it out.” We’ve heard that several times from people and that’s created additional reach, which grows their revenue, which grows their list.

ANGELA:

And which also potentially even opens up the door for collaborations. Later, like, later on, to either team up with those people to do giveaways. Or share content in each other’s emails, etc. So I guess for me, it’s like, the challenges, challenge marketing is so, so powerful. But before we get into the actual steps of creating a challenge, what do you think are the pros and cons versus a challenge versus a webinar.

ZACK:

Such a good question. So just to be really candid, we run this cheeky campaign called ‘Webinars are dead.’ And then on our classes, we’re like, “Okay, so webinars aren’t dead because you’re on a webinar.” So we use webinar marketing in our business. And I just like to be super transparent, that like, look, webinars work, challenges work, video series work, email marketing works, pay per click work; like it all absolutely works. The question is what works best for your business.

ANGELA:

Yes.

ZACK:

So when I share what I’m sharing, just know that I’m coming from a place of bias, because I love challenges. I teach challenges, and I think challenges work. Where I think challenges have a leg up on some of the competition, is number one, they’re more forgiving. So with the webinar, if you have a tech disaster; I had a client who was like, “I went live for my webinar 20 minutes in, it cut out, and I had several thousand people registered.”

ANGELA:

Oh, man.

ZACK:

That sucks. When you’re doing a challenge, like maybe your email doesn’t go on on time, you can fix it. Your email goes out too early, you can fix that.

ANGELA:

Yes.

ZACK:

You’re going to go live at 12:00 o’clock and your phone doesn’t work, go on Facebook Live; you just put a post in your group that says, “Hey my phone’s not working. Give me 10 minutes.”

ANGELA:

Yes.

ZACK:

Right? I think it’s dramatically more forgiving. Additionally, with like a webinar, you got 90 minutes of content, and that content has to be perfected, rehearsed; whereas, with a challenge, you kind of have time to play with your content. We were running a challenge where, on Day 4, people were like, “I’m so confused.” And so we did a bonus training, we added a PDF, and we’re like, “Here you go.” And people were, “Oh, I’m less confused now.” Whereas on a webinar, if you confuse people or they get lost, you can’t be like, “Oh, let me pause my presentation. Explain this a little better.” You can’t add or take slides out. So when people get lost in your webinar, like, that’s not bad; that’s an incredible indicator that you’ve good content because they are trying to learn, but they get stuck and they don’t become buyers.

The other thing is, it creates engagement and community, whereas with a webinar, and we’ve talked about this, especially in Australia; it’s hard to create a connection with an audience in 60 minutes and then sell them a product.

ANGELA:

Exactly right.

ZACK:

Whereas in a challenge, you get 5 days or 7 days or 30 days to actually build connection, community and authority, so that when you go to sell, people are like, “Oh, I know you. I trust you. I like you.” And I think even 5 days is enough time for people to determine if they like you. So I think that there’s a ton of benefits to running challenges as a way to get started. I think they’re forgiving. I think they build community, engagement and authority better than anything else.

And then the last major benefit or running a challenge is that it’s a duplicatable, scalable replicatable system where you can use Facebook advertising to make sure you’d show up for everybody. So with a webinar, you’re going to get like a 30-40% show up rate if everything goes right, meaning you get a 100 people to sign up for your webinar, 30-40 are going to show up live, and like 3-4 of them are going to convert. Whereas with the challenge, you show up in their inbox, you show up in the Facebook group, you show up on live video and then you add Facebook ads to the mix, and you’re basically, I can’t say guaranteeing, but you’re really stacking the deck in favour of people seeing at least one piece of content. So, we call it the ‘Everywhere Effect,’ like the ideal customer who’s engaging with the challenge, they’re seeing you in their inbox, their Facebook, their live streams, and they’re seeing you everywhere. So it builds trust, authority and connection faster than a webinar can. So the ‘Everywhere Effect,’ the connection, trust, and authority and the forgiving nature I think are the benefits.

ANGELA:

And would you also too, that you’ve got, like with a challenge too, that the community, the post-event stuff too, because not everyone might be prepared to buy right from the beginning, right? So it can happen, is like the relationship can be continued whereas if you got a webinar it start, like it stopped, start, start, finish. You don’t have really that opportunity, unless to show up in their inbox, whereas finding it in a Facebook group again, they’re asking questions and other community members are answering. It’s not just you like it’s a much bigger community.

ZACK:

Yes. You build that community, you build that group. And what’s crazy is that we tend to see a lot of people who do a challenge say like, and people reach out to me for one-on-one coaching because they actually wanted a deeper connection than what my course or my original consulting offer called for. So it really allows you to build that community, that connection, and the long term relationship. I can’t tell you how many people are like, “I joined a challenge of yours two years ago and now I bought a product.” So it’s also about planting the seeds for the long game like you’re talking about.

ANGELA:

And also, like you know, from a brand perspective, like I always say, every time I show up on someone’s feed, I’m still leaving an impression on them; even if it’s in the unconscious. And so the fact that is, like you said, with the webinar, you get one hit at that. With the 5-day challenge, if they’re getting an email from you, and they’re getting a live from you, and it’s coming up, you know, like there are multiple touch points, where again with that webinar, it’s like, one. And that’s kind of it. Also, I think too, would you agree if you got a cold audience, so again for those just recapping cold, they’ve never, like they’ve only just learned about you. They know nothing about you. Warm, they know a little bit about you, and hot, they’ve typically buy from you, is again shifting someone from a cold audience through to webinar from a conversion right, is going to be a lot harder than if you got 5 days of those touch points.

ZACK:

Yes absolutely.

ANGELA:

You move them to warm.

ZACK:

We find that our challenges out convert our webinars from a cold audience perspective.

ANGELA:

And that would make absolute sense. So if people are like, “Okay, great.” We’ve got examples of the challenges. We’ve looked at the pros and cons of the challenges. We’ve looked at webinar versus challenge and what that is. What is the most simplest way for people who want to get started to create a challenge? Can you walk us through a few of those steps?

ZACK:

Sure. The first thing that you need to is figuring out what your challenge topic is going to be. And I’m going to turn it into a little bit of a marketing nerd here. Follow the PSP model. The PSP model is not my invention. But is stands for Problem Solution Problem. And there’s a problem that your audience has, that you have to solve before they listen to what you know is the true problem. So I’ll give you an example, in the weight loss space, a lot of people are like, “Buy my clean eating program. Buy my cleaning course. Hire me to be your clean eating coach.:” Well your audience isn’t running around, generally speaking, I know there is a subset of this audience, but for the most part, people aren’t running around going, “God, if only I was eating clean I’d be happier.

ANGELA:

Yes.

ZACK:

Right? They’re saying, “Oh my gosh, if I could be down a pant size, I would be happier. If I could fit into those jeans I had to put in the closet three months ago, I would be happier. If I could put a notch in my belt, that I had to punch out myself because my belt is so small, I would be happier.” Right? That’s what they’re saying. So if you were in a challenge called the 5-day clean eating challenge, don’t get me wrong, you’re going to attract people who are like, “Well I know if I eat clean I’ll lose weight.” But guess what, they’re not there to eat clean; they’re there to lose weight.

ANGELA:

Weight. Yes.

ZACK:

Right? But if you run a challenge called ‘Drop a Pant Size’ or the ‘Fit Back in Your College Jeans Challenge,’ that’s way more enticing. Now there’s a fine line we have to understand, like what can you promise your audience? What are you actually able to deliver? And I tell people, think about if the ideal customer follows every step of your protocol, and tunes in to every live training, and does everything that you have to offer, what can you reasonably offer in 5 days, or 7 days, or 30 days? Right? So that’s where you have to start. You need to say, what problem does my audience perceive themselves as having, that I can solve, to uncover the real problem? So in this case, just continue with it. The problem is, I want to lose weight or I want to fit in a smaller size; the solution is, drop a jean size challenge. And then, throughout that challenge, you can say, and one of the easiest ways to lose weight and be bloat is to eat clean. Have you ask them where they are, they’re now receptive to hearing what you know is the problem. The problem is their diet, not their weight. Like, it’s a consequence of their diet. You have to meet them where they are.

ANGELA:

And so would you also say something like, again I go back to the dogs because so many people have dogs; if you just said join my 5-day dog training challenge, you’d still get people joining, because so many people have dogs or puppies or the problem. But if you said something more specific, like join my 5-day challenge where I’ll get your dog, teach your dog to sit; the actual tangible, measurable thing at the end of that particular challenge is the dog should be able to sit.

ZACK:

Exactly. And if we go with that example, the problem is my dog doesn’t listen.

ANGELA:

Yes.

ZACK:

So getting your dog to sit in just 5 days, the solution is, oh my gosh, you need training schedule, alright? Where the solution is, you get their dog to sit. And then the new problem is, well how do I expand this to, ‘stay,’ how do I expand this to, ‘walking without a leash?’ And that enrols them in your program called ‘Teach Your Dog 10 Commands in 30 Days.

ANGELA:

Yes. Exactly right. Because I guess, you know, again, I run challenges but for those that are out there that don’t, you’re obviously wanting to get them, and the topic needs be relatable to the offer does it not?

ZACK:

Sometimes.

ANGELA:

Okay.

ZACK:

So that’s a really good question. Sometimes. So I’ll give you a marketing example. We did a challenge on Facebook ads for our Facebook ads program. We don’t sell anymore, so no shameless promo here. But we had a Facebook ads program we used to sell. And our 5-day challenge was called ‘How to Create Your First Sales Funnel.’ The reason we did a 5-Day Sales Funnel was because, when we asked our audience, “What’s your problem?” They were saying, “I’m not getting any sales. I need a sales funnel.”

ANGELA:

Sure. Yes.

ZACK:

We were like, “No you don’t need a sales funnel, you don’t have any traffic.”

ANGELA:

Yes. That’s the big problem.

ZACK:

Right? So their problem was, “I need to generate sales.” So we said, “Fine.” You want to generate sales, here’s the solution. It’s a sales funnel and makeover like, “Oh my gosh. Zack, my real problem is how do I get traffic for this sales funnel?” We were like, “Well, see? Your underlying problem has always been traffic. There’s no one to put your offers in front of. Now you need Facebook ads.” So sometimes, the underlying problem is like you need to like really meet them where they are with something, it’s related, but it’s not exactly the product. And then say, the next step is the profit.

ANGELA:

Okay. Yes. Perfect. And do you feel like, people, like for that example that you gave with your challenge there, is like their, “Aha moments came?”

ZACK:

Yes. Yes. And I think that’s the big thing is like, I always tell people like, does your audience want to be told what their problem is? Or do they want you to ask them what their problem is?

ANGELA:

Yes?

ZACK:

So it’s like, by going through that process of meeting them where they is, it’s like, “Is this your problem? Okay. I can help you with that problem. Tell me what else you need.” And at the point in time that they’re saying like, “Oh my gosh, what do I do next?” You got the solution. So you’re not saying, “Here’s the solution to the problem I’m telling you, you have.” you’re saying, “Hey, I hear that you have this new problem. Here is my solution.” You’re creating the aha moment of, “Oh my gosh, here’s what I need next.” And if you do it right, they think they need something before you ever offer it. And when you offer it, it’s in congruency with what think they need.

ANGELA:

And then they’re like, “Take my money.”

ZACK:

Yes. Exactly.

ANGELA:

Yes. Show me the money. Yep, so then if they go, so okay, so they got the topic, they’ve worked out that the PSP: Problem, Solution, Problem, and then, what again, do you suggest that they go from there?

ZACK:

Yes. So from there, it’s understanding the basic structure of a challenge. And it’s just three parts. Every day you do three things. You send them an email. You post on Facebook. And you do a live stream. So there are three touch points for people to engage with you. So every day, you’re going to have a daily task or assignment that takes 10-50 minutes max, and you send that out via email. So the dog walking, or the dog training example, let’s just stick with that. Day 1 is, have your dog sit with a treat. Right?

ANGELA:

Yes.

ZACK:

That’s probably not a good start, but I’m no dog training expert. So basically, you’re going to say, “Hey, today your job is to have your dogs butt hit the floor.” Why you got a treat in your hand, they don’t have to recognize the command. They just have to say, “Butt to floor,” and they’re basically being compliant with you.

ANGELA:

Yes.

ZACK:

And then you send out an email, you post that same content on Facebook for the people who may not check their email. And then at noon you do a live stream and say, “Hey, here are some common issues you might be seeing if your dog won’t actually let you push their butt to the floor.” So for anybody who has like a really resilient dog; I have a shih tzu, and they’re very strong-willed. The first time we try to teach to sit, he like physically would not let me flip him into the same position. So we had that problem. So it’s just a live stream that’s supplemental information. The next day, you do another small task. And this is where people get tripped up. They’re like, “What should my 5 days of content be?” Well, if you start with the problem they have and the solution you’re going to offer, you basically say, “What are five steps to get to that solution?”

ANGELA:

Yes.

ZACK:

So Day 1 is butt to floor. Day 2 is doing that with the ‘sit’ command. Day 3 is doing it with a treat and the command. Day 4 is doing it without a treat. And Day 5 is doing it with just a hand motion. And now you got a dog that sits.

ANGELA:

Yes. So every day, you want to give them, a learning, you want to teach them, followed up by homework to solidify what they’ve learned. And again, by you doing it through the structure; email, post on Facebook, and then live, there are multiple ways for them to get access to that information, while at the same time, add in that credibility and authority to your knowledge base.

ZACK:

Exactly.

ANGELA:

Yes.

ZACK:

So once you do all of that, you can get a little more advanced with Facebook ads, and maybe we can talk about that. I don’t know if we have so much…

ANGELA:

Yes. Yes. Yes. Go ahead.

ZACK:

But basically, what you can do is you got this post on Facebook and you can do, it’s called Retargeting, and say, everybody who signed up for my challenge, I want to run my Facebook post as an advertisement. So whether they open my email, whether they go to my Facebook page, whether they watch my live stream, my post shows up in their newsfeed. And you’re leveraging what’s called the mirror exposure effect. It’s a psychological term that basically means, the more someone sees you, the more they trust you. We naturally trust things that we know. And so you’re basically building automatic authority by showing up, and like you said earlier, like showing up so that they know you had a conscious and subconscious level, your content is getting in front of them every single day.

ANGELA:

And that again is the ‘Everywhere Effect.’ You want to read your email buddy? That’s alright because I’m on to you because we’re now going to show up here. We’re going to retarget here so that again, you’re still going to see me. Even that, if you don’t do anything, you’re still hearing and seeing my brand.

ZACK:

Exactly.

ANGELA:

And what you said, let me ask you this, so this is a big question at James Schramko’s event because I’ve always ever run, you know from a structural point a view, I did the email, and then I did the Facebook group. And I go live into the Facebook groups, right? So you’re saying, go live in your group or do you go live in your Facebook page.

ZACK:

So I go live on my page and share it into the group? When I run an advertisement?

ANGELA:

Okay. Yes. Because there was a huge, there’s pretty much 50/50 about that, and about, do you keep it from like a scarcity thing going. I’m only going to have a Facebook group and within that Facebook group, it’s super intimate, it’s super exclusive. I can even use that language when they’re signing up. Or do you run it to your page, because, as you know, the benefits are, when you run it in your page, you are able to run advertising, whereas in a group you can’t,

ZACK:

Yes. And this is such a common question again. And people are like, “Well if I put it on my page, then why would anyone sign up?” Two things; number one, you’re not advertising it that it’s on your page. And number two, your page, what is the average now, like 6%.

ANGELA:

If that’s correct. Yes.

ZACK:

So it’s not like you’re sending it out to everybody whether they sign up or not. But that’s the first thing. The second thing is, yes, it’s on your page; but we actually implement what we call the ‘Cyclical Challenge Sign up System,’ which is a really fancy way of saying, after the challenge starts, people can still sign up.

ANGELA:

Got you. Yes.

ZACK:

And so every post and every live stream that we do says, “And if you’re watching this and you’re not already in and our private community and part of our challenge, where all the conversation is happening, make sure you click that link above and sign up.” Now, here’s where it gets really ninja. You’re advertising, not post, to everybody in the group, and everybody who signed up for your challenge. When they comment on it, your organic reach on that post increases. So you naturally start reaching friends of friends and your extended audience that didn’t originally sign up, because you’re kind of putting juice into the algorithm and expanding your organic reach so that new people in your audience who maybe didn’t open your emails, maybe didn’t see your ads, or maybe just weren’t interested before, have the opportunity to sign up and join. So by doing it on your page, you get the benefit of advertising, you get the benefit of organic reach, and you can still say, “Look, I’ve got this exclusive community where I’m having additional trainings and conversations and more stuff if you want to get the full experience. Kind of like, no one gets mad that Netflix has a free trial…

ANGELA:

Exactly.

ZACK:

As other people are paying for it; because you’re paying for it, right? Netflix is like, “Hey, if you want access to some of our stuff, here it is for free. But if you want the goods, you want to be part of all of Netflix, you can continue to pay.” I know it’s not the best parallel, but it’s a way to think about it that might help you be a little more okay with like, you’re giving away something for free, but you’re not giving them the full experience for free.

ANGELA:

And I guess that goes into my next question is this about, what are your thoughts about how much information you give away in a challenge and that balance? Because you know, the saying goes, as you always want to give away your best stuff for free, because when you do that, people psychologically go, “Well damn. Shit. If they’ve given me these much value that’s for free, then I wonder what it’s like when I buy it.” But ultimately again, especially if you’ve got a challenge that’s congruent with what the offer is, what are your thoughts about balancing how much information to give away?

ZACK:

I love this. So people like to say like, “Give, give, give value and people will buy from you.” And here is what I’d like to say, do the US have Costco, right?

ANGELA:

We do have Costco. We don’t have many Costco’s in Australia. Like there’s only one in Queensland, I think a couple in New South Wales. So maybe like 5 or 6. We don’t have many in Australia.

ZACK:

Do you have a store where you can go and like a certain time and date, they’re doing all the samples?

ANGELA:

Gosh. I’m trying to think. Not really. But most people kind of like Costco. I’m assuming that the majority of Australians would have heard of Costco that again you go in there, they got a lot of little samples, big bookstore. Yes.

ZACK:

Yes. Cool. So I want you to imagine Costco for a minute. And when you go into a Costco, especially here in the US, there’s million samples when you go on a certain day of the week at a certain time. It’s usually around dinner; it’s usually when they’re busiest. Everything is a simple. You get samples of coffee and chips and tea and chicken and like everything you can imagine. There is literally almost a sample person at like every 20 to 30 feet. Okay?

ANGELA:

Yes.

ZACK:

And so basically, what’s happening is, you go into Costco and they’re giving away all the “best stuff” for free. So you try it. And you try this. And you try that. And you have snack here. And you have a snack there. And when you leave, you have to walk by the food court. Now let me ask you this question if Costco is giving you all these stuff for free; and we’re talking a lot of stuff, like 20 to 30 samples isn’t abnormal or crazy. Now, are you like, “Wow. The next thing I want to do is eat dinner.”

ANGELA:

Well. I typically do because when I go to Costco here in Australia, it’s like, it reminds me of home. So it’s always like, “Oh, I can still shove another hotdog down the throat. Or one of the pizza’s the size of my head.” So yes, I still typically eat.

ZACK:

Perfect. And so how do feel after you’ve eaten all of the samples and the pizza?

ANGELA:

Well, probably satisfied.

ZACK:

You’re satisfied or do you feel like, “Wow, I shouldn’t had all the samples and pizza.”

ANGELA:

Oh, yes, yes. So I feel satisfied but I almost feel like, “Okay. The vomit train could potentially come because I like overindulged almost.

ZACK:

Perfect. So that is exactly what I want to illustrate. What happens is, a lot of us think, if we give lots of value, samples, that people going to want to buy from us; where they’re going to be like, “Oh, what’s that great thing?” So they get to the sales page: the food court. And they say, “Oh, I’m going to take all this content. I’m going to take it in.” And what ends up happening is, they get indigestion when they eat everything. Oh my gosh, what is the next step? And your audience takes one of the 2 paths; they either go on the instant overwhelmed, where they’re like, “Oh my gosh. I don’t know what to do.” Or they say, “I’m satisfied. I’ve gotten all this free content and I understand the basic structure of what your teaching,” because it’s on your sales page. Module 1, I do this; module 2, I do this. And they say, “I’ve had enough. I don’t need more. I’m full.” Right?

ANGELA:

Yes.

ZACK:

So there are two types of people here. And both of them, you’ve done a disservice to, because the reality is, in 90% of our industries, the free content is not all the content or everything that they need to be successful. So what I tell people is, you need to think about this differently. Your job is not necessarily to give so much free content that people are like, “Oh my gosh. You’re so amazing. I want to buy.” Your job is to make people realize, look, there is power in taking the next step. There’s a reason that weight watchers charges money, right?

ANGELA:

Yes.

ZACK:

It’s because people who pay money are more committed. And so, you want to tell your audience, “Look, here’s what I’m doing. Yes, I’m providing value. Yes, you’re showing up every day. Yes, you want to give them a result.” But you’re basically saying, “Look, I’m giving value. I’m needing you where you are. I’m showing you everything. But I really want you to understand you have a deeper problem that I can help you with inside my paid product, coaching, consulting or course.”

So, your question was like, where is this fine line between content and conversion? And I think, the big thing to understand is, if you’ve given so much content that they feel they don’t need a next step, you’ve created content indigestion, because they have a false perception that they have everything they need.

ANGELA:

Right. Yes.

ZACK:

If you give so little that they feel like they’ve gotten nothing out of it, then they don’t trust you. And so the middle line is solving a problem with your solution that really uncovers the root problem where you meet them and say, “I’ve got a solution for that problem, too.”

ANGELA:

Perfect. And there again, it’s like, they’re not fooled. They’re not dissatisfied. There is like, you said, the middle ground is there. And they’re eager to want, I guess to know more, and if, again, if you’ve done it well, and you really treated that true essence of community, and that spirit of being within a community, people aren’t going to want, it’s like that fear of missing out too. “Oh, we’re going to close the Facebook page down now. Where am I going to go now?” And it’s almost like, they want more, not just from the content, but from that communal point of view also.

ZACK:

Yes. Exactly.

ANGELA:

Perfect. And so, if they’ve done the topics, they’ve looked at the structure, they looked at the Facebook ads, and everything like you said, at the beginning, is it’s coming like that. First one, then you need to, I’m assuming, it’s assess, rinse and repeat.

ZACK:

Absolutely. So what we love about this system, and we tell people, our own challenges in general, is that if you plan it out in advance, and you build it out in advance, you can repurpose that from a very technical perspective. So you need an email autoresponder. You need a landing page service. But if you go to repeat the process, in most landing page and autoresponder services, you can hit a copy button.

ANGELA:

Yes. Duplicate. Yes.

ZACK:

And everything you’ve created and you tweak and modify as necessary. So maybe people were like, “Wow. On Day 3, I lost a ton of engagement.” You probably overwhelmed them. Let’s modify Day 3’s content. “Wow. On Day 5, everybody responded to the email but nobody showed up for the live stream. Oh my gosh. I need to really promote that live stream more effectively.” You add that to your Day 5 email and you add it to your Day 5 post. So you really need to assess and figure out what didn’t work, but you should duplicate what already has. We were in the same challenge, granted we tweak and change for two and a half years. And it worked great. And that’s why we kept using it. So many entrepreneurs and business owners are like, “Well it worked. What’s next?” And what’s next is to refine it, right? It’s not like, Apple was like, “Wow. The iPhone is so great. What’s next? The zPhone.” No, it’s iPhone II.

ANGELA:

Yes.

ZACK:

Right?

ANGELA:

Yes.

ZACK:

The next iteration of the iPhone, so it’s like, that’s what you need to be thinking, is what’s the next iteration of my challenge, but still my challenge, still my contents, still the same base hardware.

ANGELA:

And listen. If it’s one thing too, that I found that I did with Finlee and Me stuff, that I wouldn’t, I would do differently, now when I would give advice to people, is so many people, and i know Zack, you can probably talk a little bit more about this, is like you close a lot of your stuff down this year, right? And you simplify things. And so many times, I think people, because it may have not been successful the first time, right? They’re like, “Oh God. I’ve got to drop everything. I’m going to start new.” Whereas that, they genuinely look at it from lesson versus a failure and they tweak it. You don’t have to keep creating new products. In fact, once you create one product and become known for that particular product, people actually start looking for you versus the other way around. So would agree that it’s best to just kind of stick with it, rinse and repeat, refine like you said. Like I know, this year, my actual word of the year is refine. And it was about, I wasn’t bringing anything else on, I was refining my 8-week coaching program, I was refining my VIP, I was refining my retreat, and that was it. I wasn’t doing anything else. Because, we had lunch with Denise Duffield-Thomas, and I remember one of the things she said, was all roads for her lead to money boot camp. It’s one way. That’s it. So with your challenges, would you say, I guess, the same; is that all roads lead to one thing. And you don’t have to be creating more challenges. Just use what you have and tweak it.

ZACK:

Absolutely. And we had, Heart, Soul & Hustle did that. We went from multiple courses to one course, one service, and then VIP clients. And that’s all we do. And even that to me feels a little scattered and we’re working on how to refine that even further. So absolutely, I think that if you can get known for one thing, it’s so much easier to be like, could you imagine if somebody like, “Oh yeah, Angela. She’s the SCO girl. And she also does Facebook ads. I’ve seen her on Instagram. She has an Instagram marketing. She also teaches messenger bots.” And they’re like, “Well, what do I go to her for?”

ANGELA:

Yes.

ZACK:

Versus, “Oh, Zack is the ‘challenge guy.’ If I want to run a challenge, I go to Zack.”

ANGELA:

Exactly.

ZACK:

So much easier to become known and well-loved in your industry.

ANGELA:

Yes. I just want to hear what your thoughts were because I’ve just seen so many people scattering because the first launch of the first challenge wasn’t successful. Where again, I think that’s again, a mindset thing. Is it success or failure? Or is it just a lesson that you need to learn to do it better the next time?

ZACK:

Yes. Absolutely. And my friend, James Redmore, like to say, failure isn’t real. It’s just your interpretation of a circumstance. And you never fail. You either, you learn, or you hate your goal. But there’s no such thing as really failing.

ANGELA:

No. I couldn’t agree more and I think it’s just, yes; people just have to embrace it. Like, I can’t remember what I was going through, something I was reading this week, or watching this week; and that’s why they’re saying is, do you know so many times people think that it’s the first launch, I don’t know, I could go on forever about failing. But it’s not actually like, look at your members, or Facebook ads, I was like, “Oh my goodness. I’ve spent $5000 in Facebook ads, or I spent $1000 in Facebook ads,” or, “and I’ve only been running ads for a week, or Google ads for a week. Oh my goodness. I’m going to pull it because nothing is working.” But it’s like, sometimes you just have to collect the data in order to be able to assess, step back, and then do it better the next time. But too many people, I think, want those quick wins. Sometimes, like you said earlier, it’s not a quick win. You’re here to play the long term game.

ZACK:

Yes. Absolutely.

ANGELA:

Fantastic. Well if people want to learn more about you and have you help them set up their own challenge, how can they connect with you after this episode?

ZACK:

Absolutely. So if you want to learn more, you could head over to heartsoulhustle.com or follow me over on Instagram @heartsoulhustle. And if you’re like, “Dude, I’m all about challenges. I really want a structure in the system,” you can head over to heartsoulhustle.com/challengebook. And I have a free little workbook that you can check out that really walks you through exactly how to start mapping out your challenge. So it takes you through the very basics of like, what should the topic of my challenge be, what should I use as my promotional mechanisms. So it helps you get that high-level plan so you can start creating a system that duplicates marketing, daily topic, your challenge topic, all that good stuff, inside of a nice, short, concise workbook that gets you out of thinking and into planning.

ANGELA:

Well, thank you so much for being here today, Zack. I appreciate it. I miss you and your partner immensely already since you left Australia. So I’ll always find it to have some time with you even though we are oceans apart. And for the rest of you, my team and I will also be putting the whole transcription for this episode at angelahenderson.com.au. And of course, I cover also to related business and life topics inside my Facebook group, The Australian Business Collaborative, up close to 5,000 amazing community members. So I’d love to have you head on over there. And to the rest of you, have a fabulous day no matter where you are in the world, and I look forward to you joining me next week on another amazing episode of the Business and Life Conversations Podcast. Have an awesome day everyone.

Thanks for listening to the Business and Life Conversations Podcast with Angela Henderson, Zack Spuckler Challenges. www.angelahenderson.com.au

Angel Henderson Consulting

​​Founder of the highly successful online store Finlee and Me, Angela taps into the decade's worth of knowledge of how to grow a thriving enterprise and pours it into her business consulting clients. As a business consultant, she partners with start up and small businesses to grow their brands through hands on support, ensuring foundations are laid in order to leverage growth. Her skills were honed at the helm of Finlee and Me, where she learned everything from branding, PR, sales funnels, email marketing, website, copy, SEO and more. She knows what it truly takes to have a strong brand, consistence sales, steady growth and over all dedication. Angela has been featured in the media including Talking Lifestyle with Ed Phillips and David Koch, Inside Small Business and on numerous Australia and International podcasts.

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